First Engine Rebuild

Engine work, Tranmissions, LSD's, Diff swaps, etc
MonkeeV4
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First Engine Rebuild

Postby MonkeeV4 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:48 pm

Probably going to be attempting my first ground up engine rebuild on my MSM come this new year.
I'm in the process of collecting everything now.
I know what to get.
Who I'm sending the head to.
Most of it; I think I got down.

Couple questions though.

-Piston rings; those aren't variables, right?
As in, piston rings are just a replaceable part; like a gasket?
What I was planning on getting;
http://miataroadster.com/supertech_perf ... 69141.aspx

-I'm going to buy Manley H-beams, can I use the ACL bearings that FM includes in their engine rebuild kit?
As in, do I need to ask them for a different size main and rod size, as specified in their kit?
Link to the kit;
http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?dep ... %201990-91

Link to the rods;
http://fab9tuning.com/index.php?route=p ... t_id=40331

copy/paste from the FM site
ACL Race Bearing Set, Main (stock, +0.25mm/0.010" and +0.50mm/0.020" available upon request)
ACL Race Bearing Set, Rod (stock, +0.25mm/0.010" and +0.50mm/0.020" available upon request)


Any tools you guys think I should get/NEED in order to complete this job?

I'm here to learn :silence:

Thanks guys!
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MonkeeV4
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby MonkeeV4 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:12 pm

Also if anyone has a Mazda service manual that would be applicable to my model (which I think means 99-00)
And would like to let me borrow it in this coming year.
I'll buy you pizza or something.....
I'm 20.
Sorry no beer.
:belch:
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Big Lan
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby Big Lan » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:35 am

MonkeeV4 wrote:-Piston rings; those aren't variables, right?

They are, based on your block's bore size and matching piston size. I don't know about Miata pistons specifically, but ring thicknesses can vary too, based on groove size. Therefore...
As in, piston rings are just a replaceable part; like a gasket?

Not necessarily.

-I'm going to buy Manley H-beams, can I use the ACL bearings that FM includes in their engine rebuild kit?
As in, do I need to ask them for a different size main and rod size, as specified in their kit?

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on measured wear of the block and crank bearing surfaces, and the machining necessary to correct for wear. Get the engine out and its bits measured before you go ordering parts.

Any tools you guys think I should get/NEED in order to complete this job?

How much of the assembly work are you going to do yourself? How much do you trust your machinist's work?
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rennkafer
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby rennkafer » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:03 am

New rings are a replaceable part but you WILL be sizing the ring gaps to the bores. What gaps you use depends on what pistons (stock, forged, etc) you'll be using and what you intend to do with the engine (gaps would be different for a stock normally aspirated engine vs a forced induction engine).

Rods don't depend on block wear, just what you end up doing to the rod journals on the crankshaft. If it's in good shape the machinist will just polish the journals and you'd use stock size bearings. If it has minor damage they would turn the journals undersize and repolish them. Then you would use oversize bearings this is the +.25mm/.010" they're talking about as .010/.020 are standard oversizes.

What tools do you need? Really depends on whether you plan to do this more than once or not. You'll need a complete set of hand tools regardless of how many times you do it. Torque wrenches in appropriate ranges for head bolts, main caps, rod caps (more on this in a sec), are necessary at a minimum. If you're going to continue building engines I'd suggest getting a rod bolt stretch gauge and a ring filer as well. The rod bolt stretch gauge is the correct way to do them when using aftermarket rods (or aftermarket bolts in stock rods). All race shops worth a damn torque rod bolts by stretch (and keep records of it). The ring filer is nice to have, but you can get away with using jewelers files on them if you're careful (just takes bloody forever to do properly). You can pick up both of those from Summit for under $200.

The other advice I always give is NEVER trust your machinist (and I am one)... measure everything after it comes back from their shop and clean everything twice (because they won't). Everyone makes mistakes (including machinists), and catching it before you assemble the engine is MUCH cheaper and less trouble than catching it after something destroys your new engine. The other thing is most shops will fix something if you catch it before you assemble and run the engine, few will after. The only time I'd say to ignore this is if you have them assemble it... then if it's wrong they'll (usually) take responsibility.

If after all this you're thinking about having someone else put it together, talk to Steve Cardelli... I can vouch for his quality of work.
Bill J
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MonkeeV4
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby MonkeeV4 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:24 pm

Gaps for piston rings; will those come "pre-gapped" if I specify the type of piston I'm going to use?

Thank you, Lan.
I didn't even think about the crank wearing.

Head assembly; I'm going to let the machinist do that.
I trust him.


I was already planning on going to Cardelli Motorsports.
They did my NA Miata's head.
And I could eat off that thing.
It was a work of art.

Thanks for the tips/advice guys.
I appreciate every bit of it.
Always good to get another person say in.
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rennkafer
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby rennkafer » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:02 pm

Rings never come "pre-gapped"... it depends on your final bore size and is pretty close tolerance. You'll be setting ring gap.
My comment about Steve was to point out he's capable of assembling the bottom end too, not just the head.
Bill J
1997 Miata STO, 550/350 FCM adjustables, 15x9 6UL, 225/45-15 RS3's, 6spd, turbo in progress...
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MonkeeV4
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby MonkeeV4 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:34 pm

Oh.
You know I think I might be more comfortable doing that.
I'll give him a call.
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Massiah
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby Massiah » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:27 am

If you're going to have someone assemble the head and the bottom end, and all you're going to do is put those two assemblies together, all you need is a good torque wrench.

To R&R the engine you'll need a hoist and engine stand, along with standard assorted hand tools.

My question is still why? What is wrong with your engine? If nothing is wrong with it and you're doing this for fun/experience/upgrade, get an extra block/head and keep your car running.
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MonkeeV4
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby MonkeeV4 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:06 am

Nothing's wrong with it.
Slowly coming around to the "wait till something is wrong" idea.
But, I'd really rather that not happen.

That's not a bad idea. Buy a 1.8 and build it up slowly.

My mindset has been; that I'd know that the engine is solid.
Though, if nothings wrong, why go round shaking the boat?-I guess.

It would be for fun/experience/upgrade.

I'll look into the spare 1.8L idea.
Feels cost effective in the long run; not borrowing a car while the MSM is down, insurance, etc.
Everything mates up anyway.
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Massiah
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby Massiah » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:23 am

There isn't really anything wrong with wanting to make sure your engine is solid. It's a valid concern, just not a concern with the Miata. Especially the MSM. There are other things you should want to be focused on with an MSM, the engine reliability would be the least of my concerns. Especially since it's not an interference engine. What kind of mileage does the car have, anyway?

I think suspsension & wheels/tires would have been my first dealings with the car. Intercooler, boost controller, intake, downpipe and tuning would be close second, keeping with CARB standards (or not, whatever floats your boat).
'03 MRS, '04 S2k
MonkeeV4
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby MonkeeV4 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:37 am

Already have all that.
Came with the car.
Just need the suspension/wheels&tires/ecu.

It has 98,000 miles.

I have no sort of service record on it.
Make me feel better I guess? Haha.

I think I should just drive the damn thing.
Worry about it breaking when it does.
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Twibs415
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby Twibs415 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:32 pm

just do a timing belt and water pump, plugs, wires, fluid change, and make sure you have all your exhaust studs and nuts in and drive the piss out of it.
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Omg10ae
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby Omg10ae » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:05 am

Twibs415 wrote:just do a timing belt and water pump, plugs, wires, fluid change, and make sure you have all your exhaust studs and nuts in and drive the piss out of it.



:belch: :belch: :belch: :belch: :belch: happy birthday Twibs415!!!
Now me and the mad scientist gotta rip apart the block, and replace the piston rings you fried!
MonkeeV4
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Re: First Engine Rebuild

Postby MonkeeV4 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:17 am

Can the mods change this thread to "First Engine Rebuild/Happy Birthday Twibs"?

and

Happy Birthday Twibs!! :D
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